The Senate and Impeachment Dynamic…

Posted on December 5, 2019 by sundance

As the House impeachment of President Donald Trump becomes more of a forgone political conclusion it’s worth considering what terms and conditions Senate Leader Mitch McConnell will extract in order to preserve a Trump Presidency.

Most political pundits will not correctly outline the status of the possibilities, because most political pundits are willfully blind to the structure of the McConnell Senate.

First, McConnell doesn’t care about holding a majority position in the Senate.  Whether he is a majority leader or a minority leader doesn’t matter to McConnell. In fact McConnell’s political skill-set does better in the minority than the majority.

The preferred political position for Mitch McConnell is where he has between 45 and 49 republican Senators, and the Democrats hold the Majority with around 55.  Of course with Reid’s retirement, this would now be with Majority leader Chuck Schumer holding office.

Why does McConnell prefer the minority position?

The answer is where you have had to actually follow Mitch McConnell closely to see how he works.   When the Majority has around 52 to 55 seats, they need McConnell to give them 8 to 9 votes to overcome the three-fifths (60 vote) threshold for their legislative needs.  It is in the process of trade and payment for those 8 to 9 votes where McConnell makes more money, and holds more power, than as a sitting Majority Leader.

The 60 vote threshold, and McConnell’s incredible skillset in the minority, is where he shines.  Each of the needed votes to achieve sixty is worth buckets of indulgence to the minority leader.  This is why McConnell never changed the Senate rules for legislative passage.

Except for budget passage (reconciliation); and McConnell being forced by intransigence in the era of Trump resistance to change the judicial vote threshold to 51; McConnell would never consider changing the legislative threshold to a simple majority because it would be removing his favored position.  A simple majority vote is adverse to his interests; that’s why he retained it during his reign as majority leader; as did Harry Reid before him.

The vote selling to the 60 vote threshold in the Senate is where the UniParty operates; and where the status of maximum financial benefit for the minority exists.

Currently, as majority leader, McConnell needs to purchase eight or nine votes for each legislative priority.

Mitch McConnell doesn’t like being the purchaser, he prefers being the vote seller where his skill-set as a broker really shines.  McConnell is much better at extracting terms for his vote sales, than being the purchaser for the votes of an intransigent minority wing. This is why the current Senate doesn’t pass many bills.

If Democrats were in the majority, and McConnell was the minority leader, we would see much more legislation pass because Schumer is a more well financed buyer (K-Street) and McConnell is a much better seller.  Whenever we have this minority dynamic it always leaves people confused because few really watch what McConnell is doing.

McConnell takes his favorite twenty controlled GOP senators and brokers their votes on an ‘as needed’ basis.  The eight to ten senators he selects each time get compensated in the process.  McConnell rotates the financial beneficiaries on a bill-by-bill basis.  As a consequence each of the 20 or so McConnell senators gets quite wealthy over time, and McConnell gains additional power and influence.

If any of the republican Senators attempt to disrupt this UniParty business model McConnell excommunicates them from the legislative process; the best reference for the ‘incommunicado’ approach is former U.S. Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC).

Additional references for how McConnell operates this scheme as the Minority Leader can be found in the Corker-Cardin amendment which allowed the Iran nuclear deal/payments under Obama; and/or the “fast track” Trade Promotion Authority deal for TPP passage, again for President Obama’s maximum benefit.   In these examples McConnell worked with Harry Reid to flip the vote threshold from votes to approve, to votes needed to deny.

Within TPP Minority Leader Mitch McConnell was again working on the priorities of U.S. Chamber of Commerce President Tom Donohue.   McConnell and Donohue have been working together on UniParty trade and domestic legislative issues for around twenty years. It is well established that Senate Leader Mitch McConnell has one major career alliance that has been unbroken and unchanged for well over two decades. That alliance is with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and specifically with CoC President Tom Donohue.

CoC President Tom Donohue represents Wall Street interests and supports: all multinational trade deals, open-border immigration policies, amnesty legislative constructs, and all of the issues that have generally irked common-sense GOP voters for the same period of time. [SEE HERE and SEE HERE].

Tom Donohue is the biggest lobbyist spender in DC every year, by a mile.

To remind ourselves how Minority and Majority Senator McConnell took down the threat of the Tea Party revisit these old articles CNN Part I and CNN Part II  both showcase how McConnell works.   Then do some research on how McConnell worked with Haley Barbour in Mississippi [SEE HERE].

So the reason for outlining this Senate dynamic is simply to remind everyone that with a Senate impeachment trial coming up, it’s not the 2020 campaign to hold a majority in the senate that matters to Mitch McConnell.  If McConnell can rid himself of Tom Donohue’s nemesis, President Trump, and simultaneously return to his preferred and more lucrative position as minority leader, he would be quite happy.

The first opportunity for leverage over the White House will come in the shape of the Senate “rules of impeachment”.  The senate will have wide latitude in how they set-up the processes and procedures for the trial – and McConnell never misses an opportunity to leverage a “get” from his senate position.

So what will the White House need to give McConnell… or what will McConnell’s ask be, in order to protect the office of the president?  Here’s where you have to remember Tom Donohue and the Wall St priorities.

McConnell (subtext Donohue) would prefer the confrontation with China be eliminated and the tariffs dropped.  Is that too big an “ask”?  Would the White House sell/trade McConnell a China deal for better impeachment terms?

All of these are questions worth pondering now, because there’s no doubt they are being discussed amid those in DC sitting on the comfy Corinthian wing-backs and gleefully rubbing their hands around a well polished mahogany table….

….There are trillions at stake !

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432 Responses to The Senate and Impeachment Dynamic…

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  1. David Farrar says:December 6, 2019 at 9:25 amWell, at least now we know why Gov. Kemp appointed Loeffler rather than Collins for Isakson’s Senate seat — can’t lose a Donohue supporter at a time like this.Liked by 2 peopleReply
  2. Madi says:December 6, 2019 at 9:37 amCondemnation without investigation it the highest level of ignorance …Show me a crime and I will show you a man. « Ignoramus »; thank you Sundance for giving us an excellent analysis of current events. WhyLiked by 1 personReply
    • Madi says:December 6, 2019 at 9:49 amSorry the screen when’s blank. Who control the Government? Taxpayers $$$? CIA,FBI?
      Where are the WMD in IRaq? Who was the « guy » who killed 58 Americans in Las Vegas? Epstein tapes? who wants us Right/Left to fight?
      Sorry to be so cynical. I do not want a Revolution . May the real Christians take back control not all those Zionists !!! Fake
      Prophets, Fake Religions.Liked by 1 personReply
      • ann says:December 6, 2019 at 3:37 pmMadi,
        Absolutely true, Americans do not WANT a revolution.
        We do want a government that responds, rather than A RESISTANCE, that repudiates our identity, needs & wantsAs an adult, I cannot recall either party economic policy that did not betray the needs & wants of small to med cap private business.
        Mezzo/micro non public market economies expand the proportion of middle class citizens.
        America’s culture is grounded in generations of independent , resilient thinkers, self starters whose ventures are calculated risks.
        Pioneers, farmers, inventors, scientists, builders, small business, a society that must practice pragmatism and govern itself realistically to flourish. A far different culture from the DNC’s core constituency, of insulated or unionised public sector employees. . For natal citizens, our socioeconomic Bell curve was rather flattened, Until recently. Recall that media fool who quoted the doggerel on the Statue of Liberty to Stephen Miller?
        The Uniparty uses historical mythos, and crude stats that gloss over the steep vertical bifurcation of post CW era. The boom & bust, monopolies, and grim reality of millions of impoverished, immigrants; wage labor packed in urban slum tenements, rife w endemic diseases .
        Proto proletarians & barons who built industry & infastructure for cheap w laissez-faire cut throat consolidation. That’s globalism, writ large. Which both parties endorsed .
        Voters never had a chance, other than Perot.LikeReply
  3. MLK says:December 6, 2019 at 9:58 amTo state the obvious, once he took the oath the objective was to force Trump to resign. I won’t belabor all that was done between then and the 2018 midterms to lay the best predicate for that objective by domestic and foreign players, including UniParty Republicans, Suffice it to say that Republicans holding the Senate and the base unifying (not too strong a word) behind Trump, along with MAGA! peace and prosperity, made him invulnerable to impeachment/removal (and thus resignation) until after the 2020 election.I mention this in the instant context because a feature of being part of the Commanding Heights is to live to fight (and win) another day.While being rid of POTUS Trump is different in that it was and will remain an enduring objective until he is no longer POTUS, the astounding array of interests making up The Resistance to differing degrees must act under the totality of the circumstances at any given moment. I had said as recently as a few weeks ago that I assessed it more likely than not that he would not be impeached. Rather obviously, the probabilities have flipped, even if nothing is certain until it happens. I’ve been highlighting for some time that Trump is on track to win reelection in a landslide. Trump’s increasing support among black and Hispanic voters raises the prospect that of Democrats being wiped out in 2020. “What have you got to lose,” was successful in 2016, when MAGA! was merely a promise. I simply cannot see how Pelosi can break the cycle of pain in this regard with these core Democrat voters.Which, I think, explains why she is consolidating the rest of her party’s base through impeachment. Trump has brilliantly stuck to his guns, having told Pelosi what time it is after the 2018 midterms: chose either legislation or presidential harassment, you can’t have both.As for a Senate trial, we should keep in mind what constrains McConnell. He is up for reelection in 2020, and the POTUS can finish him off with the base as easily as he did with Corky and Flake. Moreover, he’s in a position to do so after McConnell has to deliver on a Senate trial. And, actually, the risk of Republican base payback exists regardless of what Trump says or signals. That was brought home to me when watching one of Trump’s rallies in TN before the 2018 midterms. Corky was there and when the POTUS introduced him the whole place booed. We shouldn’t overthink this. What McConnell has to deliver is a unified Republican caucus voting against conviction. That means he has to deliver Murkowski, Collins and even human scum like Romney. If he does, then all the decisions he made re rules etc. will be vouchsafed. If he doesn’t then every jot and tittle will come back to bite him in the ass.Liked by 3 peopleReply
    • Mrs. E says:December 6, 2019 at 12:52 pmWell, McConnell is 77 this year – an old man, having trouble getting his face to bend for his smiles. He is not aging well. Time is catching up to him, fast, and everyone can see it. Time for Kentucky to move him on.Liked by 2 peopleReply
      • Raghn Crow says:December 6, 2019 at 2:58 pmHis age is probably a factor in all this. A younger man might be more concerned about his “future” whereas an older man about his “legacy”. Does The Turtle want to go out remembered as a success or as a rat-(er, turtle-faced) blankety-blank? And it is fitting to ask, how much richer can he get by selling out the President, either politically or financially? He represents powerful international shadowy figures as well as major players, yes, indeed; but with the microscope on him, doesn’t that also reduce his options? Questions, questions.Liked by 1 personReply
  4. 335blues says:December 6, 2019 at 10:10 amIf the senate sells out America to communist china there will be hell to pay.Liked by 1 personReply
    • Zombie says:December 6, 2019 at 10:13 amHow?LikeReply
      • Rgt says:December 6, 2019 at 10:43 am“Let’s see what happens”Liked by 2 peopleReply
      • Raghn Crow says:December 6, 2019 at 3:23 pmHow? By not even pretending they govern with our “consent.” Government is like our current currency: both only survive because of either the people’s faith in the government, that it does represent our interest — or it survives because of apathy (as in the USSR, or the PRC). Today, we have faith in the money we collect, earn, and trade, when in reality it is backed by nothing, except faith in government; we have faith in government, obviously — badly damaged, of course — because we give it our “consent” — but when they betray that just a little too much — as would the Senate turning on the President — then the “suspense of disbelief” goes out the window, and of course the money is suddenly worthless as the government that prints it. We get back at them by not even pretending to believe them, and revolution erupts.
        N.B. There’s a time-honored idea contrary to “consent of the governed”, and that is that God institutes a government. (See Romans 13:1) But we in the West haven’t had that for some centuries, now, not since the French Revolution brutally introduced into Europe the American John Lockean “consent of the governed”. (A pity: Lincoln could has used it with great effect against the Rebs.) And there’s yet another: An elite governs by right of evolutionary forces only the elite perceives and can control; call it “Government by Shamans. That’s Communism and its many versions of “Socialism”. Hopeless, klunky, bossy and brutal, it always relies solely on absolute brutality to “rule”. Obviously, one can see the Democrat Party radicals clearly they are worthy government shamans; they’re utopian tyrants who want us to shut up and accept their superior rule. They must be opposed at all hazards.RCLikeReply
  5. Charles Dodgson says:December 6, 2019 at 10:19 amI suspect the real number is higher than 20 for a couple reasons. Jones in Alabama, Peters in Michigan, and Manchin in WV may be tough to convince to vote for removal if the vote ends up right at 67.Also, even if you assume every Dem votes for removal, I feel like it would be hard to convince a number of Repubs to vote to remove if their vote could be positioned as The 67th Vote. They would want 68-70 so it’s harder to single them out.Finally, there are a lot of squishes, but McConnell would have to make the benefits outweigh the risks. As an example, in my state of Texas, Cruz won’t vote to impeach, but Cornyn is as swampy as they get. However, Cornyn is up for reelection this year, and there is no way he would win relection, or even the primary if he voted to remove Trump.It would be useful to have a list of untrustworthy Repubs and then look at whether they could survive a vote to remove.I just don’t think there are 20+ Republicans that are not is such deep red states that they wouldn’t be effectively ending their careers. 10 yes, but for 20+ you’d have to show me the names and why they are either safe for reelection, or why its worth the significant risk losing.Liked by 2 peopleReply
    • Rgt says:December 6, 2019 at 10:48 amHere in MI Peters has been the invisible senator and now faces John James in 2020. A vote to remove Trump will shine brightly on Peters and may tip the balance in what currently is a toss up.Liked by 1 personReply
    • cdor1 says:December 6, 2019 at 10:56 amIf the Republicans were to convict Trump in the Senate, the Republican Party is finished. They will never recover. Mitch McConnell will eventually, if not immediately, lose his Senate seat. In the meantime, there will not be enough Republicans left for McConnell to even have any bargaining power to sell votes. I hope he is smart enough to overcome his lying ways and, instead, develop proper rules that will enable solid Republican Senators to turn the tables on the Democrats by making them testify as to all their dirty dealings over the past four years.Liked by 1 personReply
      • not2worryluv says:December 6, 2019 at 12:42 pmWithout President Trump there is no GOP.
        If any of the Republicans vote to impeach Trump the consequences would be grim for the RNC. Why kill the Golden Goose?
        Then again, President Trump could run as a Third Party Candidate and screw the GOP!
        And he could handily win re-election, in my humble opinion.Liked by 1 personReply
      • Mr e-man says:December 6, 2019 at 1:51 pmExcellent point. McConnell must be angling for one more term. 6 years is a good gig. He can make much more money in that 6 years but he has to get there. Dissing Trump may be his death knell. So he either has to go for the big score now and screw Trump, or acquit Trump and get the extra 6 years to make the big scores.Who is willing to pay him the big score now? Lots of people are lining up to pay him. And if Sundance knows how he works, so do all the big money people that will pay him to screw Trump. He can do a lot of damage all by himself with the rules.Now that I think about it, he can get the big payout now by putting in bad rules, then look for more for delivering 20 R’s. Or he can get the money for bad rules, and then not deliver any votes, insuring himself reelection for 6 more years of graft. That sounds like the best way for him.LikeReply
      • YY4U says:December 6, 2019 at 2:23 pmI was reading the posts before posting and came across cdor1 saying exactly what I would have said. A large percentage of the 95% approval of Trump Republican base will turn on the Republicans like a duck on a June bug IF the Republicans cave to the Democrats on this. It’s possible. The Gov. of GA just showed the Establishment Republicans are as two faced as Justin of Canada — Remember Romney begging for Trump’s endorsement when he came in SECOND in his primary race. Trump gave it and Romney stabbed him in the back. Same with the GA governor who will be one term I predict and done for politically.What the Republicans don’t realize is this impeachment bovine excrement would have happened to ANY Republican who beat Hillary. It wouldn’t have mattered had he been a neutered RINO (Rubio, Bush III, Kasich) or a real maverick like Cruz — he would have had a special counsel sicced on him (Nixon, Reagan, Bush II, Trump) and he’d have either let the Democrats govern or he’d have been impeached (Trump). The fact is Democrats have won since Reagan whether they lost or not. We voters have had our say but it hasn’t mattered (2010, 2014, 2016). The Swamp is in charge and now they’re powerful enough to give us the middle finger.I think the GOP is done for. Their masks have slipped and whether we jettison them in 2022 (if Trump loses) or 2024 (when he is term limited out of office), they are on borrowed time. Romney and Kemp have proved they don’t learn from experience.Liked by 1 personReply
    • Sonya says:December 6, 2019 at 12:27 pmAll these assumptions are based on the expectation that filibuster will stay in place. As soon as Democrat (any Democrat) becomes a majority leader in the Senate with Democrat President and House, filibuster is gone. In two years of Democrats in charge we will not recognize this country. They became much more aggressive since they passed Obamacare.Liked by 2 peopleReply
    • botchedcasuality says:December 6, 2019 at 12:31 pmWatch the Senators who are not up for re-election.
      They rely upon short memories of the voters and two years of spin to
      bury their actions to get re-elected.Liked by 2 peopleReply
    • Mr e-man says:December 6, 2019 at 1:40 pmNanzi said impeachment wasn’t political yet all these “jurors” have made up their mind before a “trial” or any proper evidence is submitted. They are basing their verdict on their own reelection. I could say the same thing about our Supreme Court. The verdict is already known based on the political leanings of the Justices. They only hear arguments to make it look good. What a farce our government is.LikeReply
    • Raghn Crow says:December 6, 2019 at 3:27 pmI think the Lesbian senator from Arizona, Kyrsten Sinema, wouldn’t vote to convict. Don’t known that for sure, but she seems like a true maverick. It would be interesting to see what she does in this case.LikeReply
  6. David DeAtkine says:December 6, 2019 at 10:25 amI don’t blame anyone for being a pessimist, but I think Trump is not reacting, he’s moving the pieces on this chessboard. He knows McConnell as well, or better than we do, and he certainly has information on McConnell that may be more important than anything the CoC has. The patriots are in charge — and the Democrats, as is patently obvious to anyone except completely mindless liberals, are flailing, and in utter panic. Nancy was obviously drunk or high in her press conference yesterday PM. In any event, most of us can only PRAY, so pray we do! Pray like never before; pray for POTUS and his family; pray for protection from and exposure of evil.St. Michael the Archangel, defend us. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, cast in to Hell Satan and all the evil spirits that roam about the earth seeking the ruin of souls. AmenLiked by 7 peopleReply
    • The Boss says:December 6, 2019 at 10:56 amAmen to both paragraphs.
      No wonder President Trump says bring it on.Liked by 4 peopleReply
    • abigailstraight says:December 6, 2019 at 11:22 amAgreed David!
      Mitch must realize that PDJTrump is a VERY different POTUS than those before him, Donohue COC must also realize this.
      It would seem to me that their strategy would have to be altered when working with President Trump, because THEY KNOW that HE KNOWS what happened in the past and what it going on today.
      Mitch still wants his power and Donohue COC wants power also BUT the rules have changed and POTUS determines who gets paid this time; that’s why the Dems are impeaching him; he’s not dancing to their tune, like other past presidents.
      So, I expect Mitch will step up and do what’s expected because he could lose all of his power if this goes down the wrong path.
      Remember, POTUS is unpredictable and is out to Win, Win, Win.Liked by 3 peopleReply
    • James says:December 6, 2019 at 11:22 amI’ve heard about this 4D chess for a long time but what I see is Manifort put in prison, Gen Flynn destroyed, and Roger Stone captured by an army. And what is coming from our side? Crickets. And meanwhile Hillary Clinton continues to cackle, taunt, threaten and defame our side. What is Bill Barr doing? You mean he can’t charge Hillary with something. If he did something like that it would send out a shock wave that would let them know we’re on attack. We need to fight back. I’m sure Pres. Trump knows the dems would like to destroy him and his family. They would like to arrest his entire family. Their hatred is so great they would put Barron in prison if they could.Mitch McConnell, they will come after you and your family. This is not business as usual. I love Pres. Trump and I hope the Senate will do what needs to be done, but I like most of people here don’t trust them. I hope no one is counting on the IG report, Tik Tok, Tik Tok,
      Maybe Durham will do something. Who knows.Liked by 2 peopleReply
      • Just Beachy says:December 6, 2019 at 11:48 amWell, this could be why Hillary is running, then isn’t running, then who knows running. Ready to jump in the race if/when she thinks they are coming for her. It would be impeachable to go after a political opponent after all.LikeReply
      • saintoil says:December 6, 2019 at 11:49 amSpit the hook out. It’s all part of the plan. It had to get this bad to be obvious to many people in this country just how deep the swamp is and just how demented the left has become. Most people perusing here knew the score but lots of politically uninvolved and middle of the road types just live cluelessly and most of the time are happy that way. DJT changed all that. This IS the event and the turning point for our culture.Liked by 2 peopleReply
      • Bob says:December 6, 2019 at 12:52 pmI’m very frustrated that Barr hasn’t changed someone, even for something indirectly related, like the House IT scandal. Put them back on their heels, for sure.But I also trust Trump. He’s clearly in command, and knows much more than I do. In my wildest dreams, I see Trump goading the House to impeach, and then putting on the “greatest show on Earth” during the Senate trial, calling every witness that needs to be called, asking every question that needs to be asked, declassifying every document that needs to be released, and then, in dramatic fashion, testifying directly for all to see. If he declassifies now, they’ll charge him with obstruction, but who can object to him declassifying during his own trial? It would be the highest rated TV program ever, and would go on for weeks/months in the January-February-March time-frame, overshadowing the democrat presidential campaigns and primary elections. And he’d raise an incredible amount of money, much of which can be used to primary congressional republicans who cross him.Liked by 1 personReply
      • Raghn Crow says:December 6, 2019 at 3:33 pmIndeed, we can’t trust ’em, but look at our President, the classic Alpha Male. He D.O.M.I.N.A.T.E.D. at that NATO meeting; the Brit press reported it in amaze. Most politicians are untrustworthy, too, but they are all survivors. Between an Alpha like the President, and their own fear for their political (and otherwise) survival, I think we can expect them to vote to acquit.Liked by 1 personReply
    • Daniel says:December 6, 2019 at 12:04 pmAs critical as I am of Sundance on occasion, I’ve got to say I don’t know if Trump knows McConnell better than Sundance. I think his analysis and clear explanation of that analysis spells out precisely what Trump is up against with McConnell. And McConnell can’t not do precisely that. The forces which motivate [control] his actions are irresistible. There’s no way McConnell won’t do as he is told.Trump has great instincts but the fails of listening to swamp creatures when hiring and making appointments does not create a terrific record. Great instincts are only going to get you so far. Not having enough people he can trust has been the worst stumbling block. Trump hasn’t been dealing with “incompetence.” He has been dealing with betrayal by every synonym possible including sedition and treason.And while my dreams are filled with police and soldiers rounding up criminals for trial, it’s actually very, very hard to imagine it as a practical reality.LikeReply
      • botchedcasuality says:December 6, 2019 at 12:44 pmSad to say I agree.LikeReply
      • Bob says:December 6, 2019 at 12:54 pmMcconnell and Graham are both up for re-election in 2020. They’ll have to answer to the voters for how they handle this. I like Trump’s chances.LikeReply
      • Pew-Anon says:December 6, 2019 at 2:37 pmSpecifically regarding the issue of supposedly bad cabinet appointments, this single area, more than any other, is in my opinion a clear window into the priorities and thinking of PDJT. We all complain, and rightly so, about seemingly unforced errors like Sessions, Barr, McMasters, Bolton, Tillerson, Kelly, etc. But the cabinet picks no one complains about — and the ones that have been the most stable — are all in the economic arena, especially Ross, Mnuchin, and Lighthizer. PDJT’s economic team is all aces. World class, even. The rest of his cabinet, not so much. In fact they are little more than ballast in his administration, names drawn from a hat to fill space because someone has to fill those spots. In my opinion, Trump’s priority, by far, is fixing the toxic trade position of America, especially with China. All the rest, including Spygate, Russiagate, Ukrainegate, and impeachment, is not really even on his radar, and it shows in his cabinet. In other words, despite the protest he obliged to mount against the raw sedition of the Demokkkratic left, he barely even cares. China is the goal, and the fount from which all other swamp corruption spews. We can debate whether he is right for taking such a stance, but that’s the way it looks to me more and more as I watch these events unfold.Liked by 1 personReply
      • Raghn Crow says:December 6, 2019 at 3:37 pm“There’s no way McConnell won’t do as he is told.” Remember the Far Side cartoon, picturing a devil with his pitchfork in a guy’s back, and the guy was looking at two doors, one of which was labeled “Damned if you do” and the other “Damned if you don’t”? That’s Turtle’s reality. But if he goes with his “masters” then he blows up the country. So, where’s he gonna live then? Samoa?Liked by 1 personReply
    • Joel Duprey says:December 6, 2019 at 1:13 pmWhy are you praying to St Michael? We are told over and over again in scripture that there is only one God and all prayer and praise are reserved for him alone.LikeReply
      • babethebeagle says:December 6, 2019 at 3:00 pmWe all have our own religious beliefs, but when Catholics pray “to” a saint, it is meant to be through that saint. There are numerous passages in the Bible where God uses angels as messengers to men.
        For me the important part is that we all continue to pray, pray, pray.
        The message in Luke 18, The Parable of the Persistent Widow, shows us that persistence in prayer pays off. Let us each persist in our prayers using the best way each of us knows.Liked by 1 personReply
      • Raghn Crow says:December 6, 2019 at 3:47 pmYou’re thinking of 1 Tim 2:5. Yet if there is no mediator between God and man but Our Lord, then we can’t pray for one another, interceding for one another to God, because we’d be muscling in on Our Lord’s sovereignty. However, historically, that passage was not understood that way, and it wasn’t until the Protestant Reformation that some people re-interpreted it. Catholics, the 14 self-governing Orthodox Churches, and the “Oriental Orthodox” (Armenians, Copts, etc.) all pray to saints just as you’d ask a friend to pray for you in some particular circumstance. Angels help out daily, hourly too (countering the demons and their ceaseless endeavors). President Trump needs ALL of our prayers, every single day and night, and I for one invoke the whole host of Heaven for him.Liked by 1 personReply
  7. dawg says:December 6, 2019 at 11:08 amWow.I think sundance has earned a new title. He deserves to be called “Dr. Sundance” for all the RED PILLS he is prescribing to us all!Liked by 1 personReply
  8. evergreen says:December 6, 2019 at 11:12 amIf I were Trump and McConnell hinted or asked for protection money, I’d want to tell him where to go.Instead, I’d bargain his terms, seal a deal, slide through the trial, and then burn his ass with all regularity.“But, we had a deal! You went back on your word!”“That wasn’t a deal I made with you. It was POTUS lure. Sucker.”LikeReply
  9. railer says:December 6, 2019 at 11:48 amI doubt McConnell has much leverage, not against a rock like Trump, who will stare him down fearlessly. Trump has the nuclear option, of making a real trial out of this, with witnesses and documents and lots of stuff McConnell would rather stay buried. Trump can also move to have Roberts recuse, as he’s in charge of that FISA court, the root lawbreaking in the Deep State conspiracy against Trump. Absent that FISA abuse, none of this Muh Russia conspiracy ever originates, and we’re spared this past 3 years of insanity. Roberts might not recuse, but Trump can go scorched earth with the petition for such, and make it all public, no matter the outcome. Nobody wants that, not McConnell, not Deep State, not The Swamp, not Roberts… not nobody. And as we know, Trump is capable of doing and saying anything, if it’s necessary. He would spare nobody if he saw a path through. And quite simply, it’d be the right thing to do. Roberts has no business presiding on a body that is judging Trump, when his FISA court has acted questionably in other matters re Trump. I’m predicting McConnell gets nothing in any deal, and chooses to ram through a quick review and vote in Trump’s favor. It shouldn’t be too hard. There’s no there there. In fact, I almost think Trump might be able to squeeze concessions from McConnell out of this. Trump can really make his life miserable, if he wants to. I do believe Pelosi has the votes for this, but she’s going to have to give concessions to get them. I would guess USMCA is one of those, which is good news.Liked by 2 peopleReply
  10. Daniel says:December 6, 2019 at 11:50 amHere’s a thought. LIE to McConnell. Does he behave any better?“Yes, we’ll drop China” Then once the impeachment thing is thwarted, pick it up again. People keep asking “why is this taking so long?!? Why not declassify?!” Well this is probably due to the reality of one side playing by the rules and with honor while the other side continues its guerilla warfare tactics. We’ve seen how well it works when the rules of engagement are only followed by one side. It leads to a lot of losing and ultimately to some form of disgraceful exit.I’m not discounting the possibility that there is “a plan” or “the plan” but contrary to Q people, I still don’t SEE evidence of a plan. (Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but this is a complicated way of staying on the fence here.)Trump did prevail in the Mueller situation. He waited things out and it turned out “OK” only if you forget all of the pain, suffering and slow progress being made when things could be a LOT better and faster as the president himself is fond of pointing out. So did things turn out “OK”? Depends on how you scope and define “OK.”Frankly, I believe Trump will prevail in this impeachment thing — things aren’t quite as foregone as they appear to be to some people. There’s indication a number of Democrat house members will vote against. Will it be enough when the time comes? I dunno. But I also think there may be some surprises in the house where some seats are being taken for granted so the outcome of the vote, whatever it may be, will have consequences.Prevailing will mean remains in office and the Democrats suffer for their garbage. But as Sundance points out, these people are not “playing to win.” Some are even “playing to lose” as is explained in very clear and understandable terms above. (Seriously, I don’t think it could have been explained more clearly — the math is simple and the fact that when you’re in the minority, you’re on the “sales” side rather than the buyer’s side when it comes to politics.) So this reality (not playing to win) sort of screws with the odds here.So I think Trump needs to deal with these clowns by using THEIR rules. Of course, I’m sure they’ve got some sort of guarantee Trump wouldn’t go back on any agreements even though they do quite often. But Trump is smarter than that — a lifetime of dealing with government in New York and worldwide, he knows how to get what he wants…. usually. I don’t trust a plan I can’t know about. I do trust Trump. He’s our Obi-wan — our only hope.Liked by 1 personReply
  11. mike diamond says:December 6, 2019 at 12:51 pmWhat would Mitch do!???nothing! He never stands for our PresidentLiked by 1 personReply
    • Daniel says:December 6, 2019 at 2:24 pmWhat would he do? He would pull a Ben Shapiro. When the ridiculous claims against Roy Moore were in the news, Ben was right there saying “credible allegations” without EVER substantiating what exactly was credible about circumstantially false allegations. When a leading political intellectual shifts from facts and evidence, explaining all of the details which form the basis for an analysis to empty and inexplicable claims, it’s noticeable. It’s rather like the rare occasion when people here depart from the detailed intellectual review of something and then cite unnamed sources.I’m with President Trump on the topic of unnamed sources:Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrumpDo not believe any article or story you read or see that uses “anonymous sources” having to do with trade or any other subject. Only accept information if it has an actual living name on it. The Fake News Media makes up many “sources say” stories. Do not believe them!116K6:43 AM – Dec 6, 2019Twitter Ads info and privacy56.4K people are talking about thisAnd I don’t care how well regarded the source is. It could be Hannity or here. If you can’t spell it out and substantiate it, I’m going to take what you have to say and give it the weight of the supporting information offered.Liked by 1 personReply
  12. Sparty says:December 6, 2019 at 12:57 pmI think he is actually terrified of Trump. They all are. And POTUS knows this dirtbag McConnrl and how to twist him then leverage. Up for re-election in 2020, Trump calling him out via Twitter and pressers, exposing wife’s daddy 7M “gift”. Mitch most likely finds a way to steal from someone else. Too risky to take on Trump. Knows he will lose in a battle with Trump cuz Trump tweets everything. Real time. I’m not worried.Liked by 2 peopleReply
    • Daniel says:December 6, 2019 at 2:27 pmIf he were smart, he’d offer his assistance and turn states evidence in any investigation which points in his direction. He just MIGHT stay out of prison and keep whatever retirement is befitting a career politician. But the problem is, he’s owned like pretty much all other swamp creatures and if you won’t take their bribes, they will destroy you before you can do anything honorable.Liked by 1 personReply
  13. rustybritches says:December 6, 2019 at 1:08 pmAt least 4 Dems have said they will vote no with impeachment coming out of the house and now they just need 14 or 15 more to vote no and not go to the Senate I believe that some of them do have good sense However Some people are saying that there are so many of the senators who want to vote P T Out of office and get rid of him, They all believe that they can handle Pence more than P T I don’t think there is any doubt that all the people who bailed out of the house in 2018 did so because they were paid to leave By RYAN and his back stabbing bunch of losers
    Soros should be run out of this country on a rail.. I believe too that it could be as high as 20 and if they are saying this behind PT back then McConnell is well aware of the amount who will vote to impeach Pt when the time comes and Pt may have this handled but Not take any thing that McConnell says as gospel that man is a real snake and low life..
    Be sure YOU have someone with you at all times when You talk to McConnell MR PRESIDENT
    • Daniel says:December 6, 2019 at 2:30 pmThey would be right about Pence. He doesn’t stand for anything and especially does not support the president. He sold out on General Flynn without looking for the facts of the matter — he just feigned outrage and Trump fired him.He sounds like an auctioneer when he speaks. Lots of noise and very little substance.LikeReply
  14. FairTaxGuy60 says:December 6, 2019 at 1:51 pmAnother piece to the puzzle is that Democrats/Deep State/Media surely have other illegitimate plans up their sleeves once this gets to a Senate trial. Never doubt the Democrats. You may think it will look bad for them to air everything out in the Senate, but by George they will have a plan to get the votes they need to convict him. Especially in conjunction with what Sundance outlines above. Mark my words! Lobby your Congressman daily to vote NO on impeachment. Shut this down now, not in the Senate. Let John Durham do the righteous work of indicting and convicting these traitors.Liked by 1 personReply
  15. 6×47 says:December 6, 2019 at 1:54 pmThis article is exhibit “A” of “Sundance provides analysis you can’t get anywhere else.”Nobody else is saying this, anywhere. Keep up the good work.The counter move for President Trump? Obviously – make McConnell a better deal. Hopefully not one that involves selling out Main Street to K Street and China.Liked by 2 peopleReply
  16. GW says:December 6, 2019 at 1:59 pmSo Trump should do what the rest of these scum do time and again : promise whatever they want and after the acquittal, ignore the promises.LikeReply
  17. Mr e-man says:December 6, 2019 at 2:00 pmI still find it hard to see Dems actually wanting a real trial in the Senate, especially knowing the odds are for acquittal. They are happy with their backstabbing, unfair, unconstitutional Kangaroo court because they control the narrative. That goes away in a real trial where Trump can request discovery, subpoena witnesses that Schiff can’t deny, etc. On the other hand, they may be so willfully blinded by their hate, and fooled by their own propaganda, that they haven’t thought it through and don’t realize they are walking into a mine zone.Liked by 1 personReply
    • Raghn Crow says:December 6, 2019 at 3:56 pmYour first paragraph is wise; the second paragraph has it: they’re demented, because “sin darkens the intellect” and wow, are those pro-aborts a sinful, wretched crew!LikeReply
  18. Battleship Wisconsin says:December 6, 2019 at 2:05 pmRepeating what I said in an earlier thread, an obvious truth should be recognized. The Senate will acquit the president of any wrongdoing. Whether or not the president is subsequently acquitted in the court of public opinion is what matters.Once articles of impeachment against President Trump have been passed by the House of Representatives and the follow-on Senate trial commences, the president and his legal team cannot defend him successfully in the court of public opinion without the full and complete cooperation of the Republican’s Senate leadership. A defense in depth mounted by a team consisting of Republicans from the House Judiciary Committee and the President’s own lawyers could turn the tables on the coup plotters and turn the accusers into the accused in the court of public opinion — assuming Mitch McConnell allows that kind of highly aggressive defense to be mounted. As I said earlier, a key question which must now be addressed is whether or not early public release of the classified Spygate documents during the course of the post-impeachment Senate trial would legally prejudice any criminal cases brought later against the Spygate perpetrators. ‘Early release’ in this context is defined as a release of classified Spygate documents which occurs before any of the Spygate perpetrators have been charged with a crime. Let’s presume for now that the articles of impeachment will include the alleged acts of obstruction of justice described in the Mueller Report. If that is the case, then issue subpoenas to all of the Spygate perpetrators and have them testify as witnesses in the Senate trial. Put them all under oath. Carefully note if anything they say contradicts known facts and refer them to the DOJ for prosecution for lying under oath if they slip up. Let the Democrats suffer the political consequences if all of the Spygate perps take the 5th Amendment in the course of the Senate trial.That said, it must also be said that one way or another, it is imperative that the Spygate perpetrators be criminally charged for their role in the coup against the president. As long as early release of the classified Spygate documents is done in response to a Senate subpoena issued in the course of a post impeachment trial of the president, I have to believe that criminal cases brought later against the Spygate perps would not be legally prejudiced by that early release. Not that the Spygate perp’s lawyers wouldn’t try to make that argument in court; they will. If anything is certain, it’s that as the oncoming Battle of Political Gettysburg evolves, any and all lawfare tactics will be used by one side or the other to gain a political or legal advantage. Repeating my original question:Would early public release of the classified Spygate documents during the course of the Senate trial be legally prejudicial to any criminal cases brought later against the Spygate perpetrators, if that release was done in response to a subpoena from the Senate?LikeReply
    • ATheoK says:December 6, 2019 at 2:31 pm“Battleship Wisconsin says: December 6, 2019 at 2:05 pm

      As I said earlier, a key question which must now be addressed is whether or not early public release of the classified Spygate documents during the course of the post-impeachment Senate trial would legally prejudice any criminal cases brought later against the Spygate perpetrators.’ Which fails to explain exactly how “classified Spygate documents”get released.A.G. Barr and president Trump can legally declassify the relevant documents.
      Truth tends to be a sanitizer.The faux prosecution of President Trump uses “classified Spygate documents” as part of the charges?
      • Risking prosecution for public exposure of classified documents?
      • Or letting Senators with sufficient security clearance to see the documents; plus the SCOTUS Judge sitting in the Senate who can legally expose the alleged classified documents?Face it, the absurdly lame democrat partisan impeachment that relies upon “classified Spygate documents” exposes their impeachment weaknesses right from the beginning.
      Which should immediately force the SCOTUS Judge to dismiss impeachment charges due to democrat abject refusals to follow and apply “due process rights and protections” in their blind jealous zeal to impeach.
      Poisonous fruit of the vine; with emphasis on poisonous.Anybody counting on Chief Justice Roberts to corruptly convict the President of impeachment is overlooking SCOTUS judges can be impeached easier than Presidents. Such an act of overt corruption would be the trigger to impeach a SCOTUS Judge.Liked by 1 personReply
      • Battleship Wisconsin says:December 6, 2019 at 4:28 pmATheoK says: ” …. Which fails to explain exactly how “classified Spygate documents” get released. …..”That’s an important question. How specifically do the currently classified Spygate documents get declassified and publicly released prior to the Spygate perpetrators being charged with crimes without legally prejudicing the cases against them?Here is how I think it might be done:(1) The House of Representatives passes articles of impeachment against President Trump which include allegations of obstruction of justice as described in the Mueller Report.(2) The rules the Senate establishes for conduct of the follow-on trial allow the President’s defense team to request declassification and public release of all currently classified Spygate documents thought to be pertinent to establishing Donald Trump’s guilt or innocence. (3) Under the Senate’s authority, the President’s legal team issues a subpoena for all of the Spygate documents included on the Sundance Sunlight Document List (SSDL). The request also includes declassification and public release of all those documents. (4) The Department of Justice reviews the Senate subpoena and the associated declassification request to determine if public release of these documents would be legally prejudicial to any criminal cases brought later against the Spygate perpetrators; and also if public release would harm national security. (5) In reviewing the Senate’s subpoena and the declassification request, the Department of Justice and AG William Barr must weigh the value of the public’s right to know against any possible future harm that might be done to national security and to subsequently filed criminal cases. (6) In this particular situation, the larger and most fundamental question must be asked: Is the public interest best served by declassification and public release of the Spygate documents, even if there is the potential for future harm to national security and to subsequently filed criminal cases?Assuming that most all of the material on the Sundance Sunlight Document List is declassified and publicly released per direction of AG William Barr; and assuming the Senate rules for the trial allow for it, then subpoenas are issued by the President’s defense team under the Senate’s authority to all of the Spygate perpetrators for their testimony as witnesses in the Senate trial. The perps are put under oath. Careful notes are taken to determine if anything they say contradicts known facts. If so, they are referred to the DOJ for prosecution for lying under oath. Let the Democrats suffer the political consequences if all of the Spygate perps choose to take the 5th Amendment in the course of the Senate trial.That said, it must be said once again that one way or another, it is imperative that the Spygate perpetrators be criminally charged for their role in the coup against the president. IMHO, as long as early release of the classified Spygate documents is done in response to a Senate subpoena issued in the course of a post impeachment trial of the president, I have to believe that criminal cases brought later against the Spygate perps would not be legally prejudiced by that early release. Not that the Spygate perp’s lawyers wouldn’t try to make that argument in court; they will. As I said in my first post, if anything is certain, it’s that as the oncoming Battle of Political Gettysburgevolves, any and all lawfare tactics will be used by one side or the other to gain a political or legal advantage.LikeReply
  19. ATheoK says:December 6, 2019 at 2:10 pmProving, beyond any doubt, just how corrupt McConnell really is.Liked by 1 personReply
  20. mauiis says:December 6, 2019 at 2:28 pmSundance ends many of his brilliant articles with “Trillions are at stake.” That’s serious blood money folks.I remember a movie about the Depression.Worn down and hopeless people are recruited to a marathon dance contest. The cash prize awarded to the winning couple is enough to form partnerships forged in Hell. To spice things up the emcee spontaneously has the tiring, abused dance partners run mini races around the floor. A male partner experiences a heart attack, his female partner (they were in the lead) drags his dead carcass across the finish line to stay in the dance.It continues to its dystopian, dreary end in which the woman who dragged her dead companion across the finish line (she found another partner to finish the marathon) wins the contest.She then discovers that the cash prize is subject to “expenses” of the event ending up with a mere pittance of the prize money. Retrieving a pistol from her purse she puts the barrel to her head but can’t pull the trigger. Her exhausted and embittered partner is asked to do the job. He does.When asked by the police why he did this he replied, “They shoot horses don’t they?”
    —————————————How long must “We The People” be made to endure this marathon of malice and destruction being played out in Washington? How much longer will the hectoring of self-appointed emcee’s cajoling the sheep to “keep dancing, the prize is almost won” when the reality is NO PRIZE EXISTS!!! At least for “We The People.”So much more than “trillions” at stake but we know that. Either we continue to be danced to death or we put a stop to it. By any means necessary. Trump isn’t God and even he can’t do this alone. I’m stunned (and grateful beyond measure) he’s taken us this far.It’s time to have a discussion, a serious discussion about the “means” that may well be necessary other than bullets (at least for now). It appears that traditional means ain’t working but maybe I’m wrong, not being privy to behind-closed-doors activity. But if I, and many others like me are not wrong, what do we do? Besides posting screeds such as this one, or worse “Lock and Load,” “Molon Labe,” or other keyboard-warrior inanities. (I’m not opposed to armed citizen defense by the way, it is expressly why we have the 2nd A. I simply have no confidence in the chest pounding expulsions of armchair warriors aka “Sunshine Patriots” so common on chats.)What. Do. We. Do? Tax revolt? Massive boycotts of public education? Re-jigger “Lawfare” and turn it against the Washington pig-stye? Will conservatives even attempt a real march on Washington, one attended by millions, not thousands? I don’t really know, seems we can’t even support alternative social media sites such a GAB, hell, we can’t even give up FaceBook or Google, all powerful institutions that make no secret of their disdain, even hatred for us.Any ideas?Liked by 1 personReply
    • ann says:December 6, 2019 at 4:00 pmMaui is,
      A couple rough IdeasSilent Turnouts on State capitols, federal courthouses, Senate home offices. Burr McCconnel, etc A 10 percent tax withholding in demand for cuts in Dept of Education, or some other noxious public sector, Critical to Link clear reasonable & broadly supported demands with specific durable doable actions. And visibility. Even a discreet bracelet like I wore for MIAs, cause us small folk are really physically vulnerable but we want to be free too. ♥️Blacks are passionate about illegal migration, and sanctuary cities were imposed wo our consent. Those are two unifying points. Also a counter theme I admired & identify with, Poland’s “Solidarity” movement.Liked by 1 personReply
  21. Another Scott says:December 6, 2019 at 2:31 pmIf it comes to dropping the China battle people will put two and two together and see that the impeachment is the reason.Liked by 1 personReply
  22. paulg1961 says:December 6, 2019 at 2:35 pmI’m reading these comments, and I think most of you think Trump has God’s hand around him. God better, because, IF OUR Congress/government wants ‘something’ to ‘happen’ to somebody, I’m pretty sure it will/can happen. IF Trump pizzed off ALL the wrong people, well…….LikeReply
  23. paulg1961 says:December 6, 2019 at 2:35 pmI’m reading these comments, and I think most of you think Trump has God’s hand around him. God better, because, IF OUR Congress/government wants ‘something’ to ‘happen’ to somebody, I’m pretty sure it will/can happen. IF Trump pizzed off ALL the wrong people, well…….LikeReply
  24. Effem says:December 6, 2019 at 2:36 pmThis strikes me as a bit short-sighted. The President has the power to act unilaterally on many trade issues. If the Republicans lose the White House (as Pence or whomever surely would in an absolute landslide) it’s entirely possible the next Democrat President will be much more aggressive with China and Mitch then has little ability to influence.LikeReply
  25. dallavise says:December 6, 2019 at 2:56 pmNot sure if i agree with this. Not that I disagree with the dynamic and how Mitch works, but there is a serious problem with pulling the trigger on convicting. Americans will revolt. At best, there will be a huge effort to eliminate ALL incumbents. And it wouldn’t be small numbers. I think it would be suicide to get rid of Trump, unless they have some intriguing evidence they are holding back, which would have to be spectacular to shift opinion. Worst case, Civil War, or at least major unrest.Liked by 2 peopleReply
    • Raghn Crow says:December 6, 2019 at 4:02 pmExactly, and whatever else Turtle is, he is not a fool. If he blows up the country, where’s he gonna live? Samoa? Does he have family, grandkids? Does he want ANY “legacy” at all? For when all is said and done: “Only a fool fights in a burning house,” – Klingon proverbLiked by 1 personReply
  26. mikeyboo says:December 6, 2019 at 3:00 pmIf President Trump loses power, McConnell will be toast in Kentucky. Is he ready for that?Liked by 1 personReply
  27. Muthaucker says:December 6, 2019 at 3:08 pmThe time is fast approaching where the consequences of “business as usual”, will be deadly.Liked by 1 personReply
  28. Atta boy says:December 6, 2019 at 3:45 pmOne more reason to repeal the 17th amendment.LikeReply
  29. Richard Axley says:December 6, 2019 at 4:04 pmVery informational article. Now I’m worried McConnell will sell his votes to convict Trump, McConnell is as much (or more so ) a ‘congress critter’ than anybody else. He stands to lose at LEAST as much as anybody else as the ‘swamp’ is drained.
    Of course the press would treat McConnell as a hero, instead of traitor-he’d be another McStain-selling his vote wherever as needed to get as rich as he want’s (not that trying to get rich is wrong if you do it ethically)LikeReply
  30. Lyon says:December 6, 2019 at 4:09 pmI disagree with your Premise that McConnell doesn’t like being the Majority Leader.He’s remaking the Courts faster than any Majority Leader in History.Oh, and Trump scares the Sh!t out of him.LikeReply

About abyssum

I am a retired Roman Catholic Bishop, Bishop Emeritus of Corpus Christi, Texas
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